Breath 5 tank classes survey

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NearNihil
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Breath 5 tank classes survey

Post by NearNihil »

It's been almost a year since the last time we had a survey (I couldn't find the word for it at the time, so it was called a questionnaire, heh), and I think it's high time to see if we can get some more focused feedback. First up: tanks - Seraph, Eternal Soldier, Infernal Behemoth. The goal is to collect data from as many players as we can and to make a word cloud from the results, to get a more word-based (and less numbers-based) idea of what the consensus is.

Survey can be found here: https://forms.gle/v5SsrEMegW7KXi5t7

The survey will be open for two weeks and a bit, closing on Monday, October 30th. Just before H🎃lloween.

Results will be shared when the survey concludes, as well as proposed changes to address any feedback. This is not a locked topic, feel free to reply (kinda felt like I was throwing things into the ether last time at any rate).
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NearNihil
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Re: Breath 5 tank classes survey

Post by NearNihil »

Due to RL things I got delayed a little bit, but I'm closing submissions! Thank you to everyone who took time to send stuff in! I'll let you know when I've got something to share.
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NearNihil
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Re: Breath 5 tank classes survey

Post by NearNihil »

You are correct! It's back on my radar now though, thanks for the bump. Reserved some time for it in between the festivities.
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oath2order
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Re: Breath 5 tank classes survey

Post by oath2order »

Awesome, I'm curious how this turns out.
old-school member been here since like September 2014, I finally got my original start date.
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NearNihil
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Re: Breath 5 tank classes survey

Post by NearNihil »

I've run the results through the word cloud maker, here are the results.

Seraph - Role, Build | Offense, Defense, Utility | Suggestions
- Unsurprisingly, Seraphs have enough health and soak to do their job. However, they are also regarded as dependent on allies firstly and enchantments/potions second. Responses vary between "good enough" and "IB is better, buff Seraph".
- Offensively, Voltcaster is the clear choice which is also unsurprising. Shout-out to the one Gun Seraph that responded.
- The non-combat aspects of the class are also Mortal-tier, with a note that since most Seraphs are bow-based, they'll typically pick up Bowyer.
- Suggestions are threefold: Buff non-Voltcaster innates to make them viable alternatives, add skills like Defensive Stance that allow for actively tanking with some sort of cost, and lastly Clockwork Precision is noted as being clunky to use so some sort of way to make it work with you rather than against you.

Eternal Soldier - Role, Build | Offense, Defense, Utility | Suggestions
- Emphasis on being a good tank, with dodge being the main selling point - as we would expect. If you don't build for it, the class suffers. Good to see that this one is less compared to IB though.
- Offensively there is a mix of (mostly older) gunslinging ESes and HTH ESes. Legend of the One Punch is appreciated and lamented at the same time - it's a fun skill and the numbers can get big, but requiring all of the combo skills in the Myrm tree makes it a bit one-note.
- Non-combat skills: well at least they have some healing through the Myrm skills. Otherwise mortal-tier.
- Suggestions include reducing CP costs in both the ES and Myrm skill trees, so as to be less pushed to one particular build. Buffing the gun and melee-related skills also have multiple proponents. Generally, ES seems to promise a fantasy that isn't entirely delivered, the one with being a Rambo type can-use-all-weapon-types-well class.

Infernal Behemoth - Role, Build | Offense, Defense, Utility | Suggestions
- Being the most aggressive of the three - you either actively tank with Tholagru, or go on a rampage with Tlacolotl - it's no surprise that the IB is seen as the most effective tank. Fantastic damage and tanking ability, before the Strike of Cain nerf they could easily clear medium-size factions' strongholds. Now they just clear them.
- The Whip of Suffering is notable in that it's not just a great offensive tool, it also works wonders on defense. It's mentioned often (again, no surprises there) to the point that the verdict is unanimous in that it's the strongest option for IB. There are two flame-throwing IBs though who think it's not that great.
- Utility, what's that? One respondent mentions building forts which I guess counts.
- Once again, the dominance of Whip (and Tlac, to a lesser degree) makes most suggestions revolve around making alternatives to those skills more viable. Funnily enough, multiple responses included a suggestion to be able to pick up other players and move them around (with Heavy Lifting).

Conclusion
I didn't read any earth-shattering new opinions - which is good, I didn't get blindsided at least - but it is worth noting that all three of the tanks face similar design problems. It kinda feels like the most optimal build is crystal clear and that if you decide to choose a tank class, you're consenting to being pigeonholed into that build (with some variations, but not that much).
I can't promise any big changes in Breath 5, some number tweaks are probably the best we're going to get. That could make for a "good enough" stamp though, as all three have weapon bonuses to play with. That said, especially Seraph has a decent chance, what with having the most innate weapons available.
In B6 however, I can pull back the curtain a little bit already. Even before the survey was posted, there have been ideas floating around for more, and particularly more interlocking, (innate) weapons and skills. For example, a Seraph gets the choice between a Voltcaster, a souped-up Holy Sword with bonuses if they also picked that skill as Paladin, Incendia Conicio, and Clockwork Cannon. Perhaps even going so far as to make it viable to pick up two on one character. However, nothing is set in stone on this front, maybe it'll be better than that but maybe it won't. Stay tuned!

Final words
Thank you to everyone who participated in the survey! I've definitely slacked on processing the responses, but better late than never. I hope to have more definite number-tweaking soon, keep an eye on those patch notes!
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